John 20v1 “early darkness”

26 Jun

John 20v1 “early darkness” – Read the full article on BibleStudents.co.za

GE:

God willing I want to reproduce here the discussion between John317 and myself on the translation and interpretation of John 20:1, extracted from another page and here presented, ordered to incidental sequence for the purpose of giving an uninterrupted overview so that EACH MAN can make his own and decisive conclusion about the matter from a complete impression of the discourse.

Of grave and immediate consequences is the translation of John 20:1 with very, very far reaching implications and consequences.

God be with you as you may read.

Krause:

Most people walk in and out of your life,
but FRIENDS leave footprints in your heart.

Moderator:

The subject is toxic.

GE:

I am God’s dog; I live on the crumbs that fall off his table loaded with the Bread of Life!

Man, and am I having a feast! The guests at table wipe so much Bread off the table they scarcely taste a crumb themselves!

It’s fine with me to go sniff for God’s Word on the forum’s trash heap … just fine, thanks!

Ja, I must scavenge among a lot of real toxic stuff from the regulars’ smartly decorated tables; and sometimes even dig the Word out from under their vomit over me.

The Word’s crumbs though have marvellous healing properties and never get bad or taste bad.

I’m a dog in my seventh heaven … won’t swop for any other

place on earth!

You are all cordially invited to come over for the Feast on the threads’ trash heap, fellas! Discovered nice bones there buried deep or lying scattered all over! Just the stuff for a Bull Terrier!

… and of course, it’s JUST THE PLACE FOR THOSE WHO LIKE A DOGS’ BRAWL!

Gail:

???

GE:

???

GE:

A Bull Terrier is the best and dearest thing the English ever made!

Moderator has proved,

One,

That ‘toxic’ is more ‘Christian’ than to “welcome” a person with “open arms” with “access denied”;

Two,

That point has been made; that point has been taken;

Three,

That it has become time to thank the Lord and sing praises to his Name, for his Word is alive and well and makes itself heard where it matters most;

Four,

That the same awareness is becoming more widespread by the day.

Therefore, thank you, clubadventist for the improvements you have achieved and your preparedness to accommodate persuasion contrary your own. It shows the real, Christian spirit of discourse!

“There is no fear in love.”

Only one thing disturbing about the present ‘categorization’ –

beggars can’t be choosers I suppose – Truth will have to tolerate his next door neighbour, Heresy. I assume the age of ‘theological discrimination’ too, has seen its end among its offspring of ‘integrated theology’ —while I have always been staunch conservative.

Yes; disappointing; if I don’t admit I must lie.

Mark in 16:9 derives from John 20:11-17. And there, it says “Mary HAD HAD STOOD AFTER at the grave …”. So when Jesus appeared to Mary, it was not her first visit at the tomb; she had had before gone to the tomb —much earlier in the morning of the night. So in Luke 24:1,10 we read that Mary and other women had gone to the tomb “in the deepest morning of night carrying their spices prepared and ready … but they FOUND NOT the body”.

Therefore midnight, and Jesus “was risen”, already!

But John 20:1,2 tells, “Mary Magdalene on the First Day of the week BEING EARLY DARKNESS STILL, comes to the sepulchre, sees the stone is rolled away from the tomb; runs back …”

Therefore “EARLY DARKNESS STILL” – “being DUSK yet on the First Day”, that is, just “after the Sabbath” as it says in Mark 16:1 AFTER SUNSET —and Jesus “was risen”, already!

So WHEN did Jesus ‘arise’?

“… WHEN suddenly there was a great earthquake LATE ON THE SABBATH MID-AFTERNOON towards the First Day of the week.”

“… WHEN suddenly there was a great earthquake LATE ON THE SABBATH MID-AFTERNOON towards the First Day of the week … EXPLAINED THE ANGEL to the women …”

Matthew only, says, “Explained” / “Informed” / “Answered” / “Enlightened”, ‘apokritheis’.

Matthew only, tells the circumstances, accompanying events, day and time of day Jesus Christ must have arisen / must have been

raised from the dead.

“… and God the Seventh Day rested.”

….

– Read the full article on BibleStudents.co.za

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Evening hours begin the morning – Nisan 13/14

17 Jun

Evening hours begin the morning – Nisan 13/14 – Read the full article on BibleStudents.co.za

The evening hours … began the morning
The evening that begins the day of Nisan 14 is Nisan 13

BG:

Nisan 14 that begins the evening of Nisan 13 is the Lord’s Passover.  It is the day that leaven is removed from the home and the Passover Lamb is killed.  It is the preparation day for the Annual High Sabbath that is the first day of Passover – Nisan 15 that begins the evening of Nisan 14.

GE:

BG, praise God! I agree 100%!!

See, written decades ago, and published unaltered a second time about 5 years ago? … here, http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book%201,%201%20Passover%20to%20Crucifixion.pdf

page 5.

BG:

The evening that begins the day of Nisan 14 is Nisan 13.

GE:

Yes! The NIGHT- and LAST part that used to be Nisan 13, CHANGED into the first and day-part of what THAT DAY had become Nisan 14. BUT JUST THAT ONCE for the very first passover ever, in Egypt.

See in the sketch “end of 430 years” and of the old dispensation of slavery and bondage that through the passover had become the new era of freedom through the passover – “SUFFERING” – of our Lord Jesus Christ, ONCE for the last passover ever, in Egypt in hell in the Kingdom of the Father.

It is therefore that you will find Nisan 14 ONLY THIS ONCE in the Torah and all the Bible, seen as and named, the passover’s “feast” … 12:14. But already in verse 18, see the FIFTEENTH of the First Month IMPLIED for having become the PERMANENT, “Feast-of-passover”.

BG:

It is the night of the Lord’s Passover Meal with the disciples.

– Read the full article on BibleStudents.co.za

Teoloë is soos Boere

26 May

Teoloë is soos Boere

Daar is teoloë wat soveel boeke as die sandkorrels van die Sahara skryf en dadels oes.

Daar is teoloë met boeke soos die bossies van die Karoo wat boer vir wol.

Daar is Bolandboereteoloë op wingerdplase wat boeke soos goedkoop wyn verbou.

En party wat boeke oprig om uit die lug die wind te pluk.

Noord is nog Boere op plase met mielies vir pitkos langs lokasies wat kom in, wat glo in die Teologie van Hoop.

Maar meeste plase word geboer deur munisipale amptenare vir hul eie, sak.

Teoloë wat veronderstel is om te werk in die boorde van Israel, waar die base Skrifgeleerdes en Fariseërs, boomuithalers en waterdiewe is.

23 05 15

Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn

http://www.biblestudents.co.za

https://thelordsday.wordpress.com

biblestudents@imaginet.co.za

Grandiloquence and “three days and three nights”

26 May

Grandiloquence and “three days and three nights”. – Read the full article on BibleStudents.co.za

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=82235 (original forum thread)

Rstrats:

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase “x” days and “x”nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the “x” days and at least parts of the “x” nights?

DarrellC:

Sure [Cut]

Strats:

I don’t see where the link provides the writing requested in the OP. I wonder if you might explain why you think that it does?

Billwald:

Don’t you “True Believers” ever tire of picking the fly specks out of the pepper?

Chowmah:

It was Jesus who spoke of the 3 days AND 3 nights

JOHN 11 [9] Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.[10] But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

And He knew how many hours were in a day

Winman:

I have changed my view on this over the years. What I now believe is this;

Jesus was crucified on a Thursday, and was placed in the grave

before sunset. This is the first day.

Thursday evening (night) is the first night. To the Jew this was Friday.

There were two Sabbaths this week, this was the first Sabbath.

Friday is the second day.

Friday evening is the second night. To the Jew this is Saturday and the normal Sabbath. This was the second Sabbath this week.

Saturday is the third day.

Saturday evening is the third night. Sunday to the Jew.

Jesus rose from the dead sometime Saturday evening (Sat./Sun.) before sunrise.

This gives you three days and three nights.

GE:

It is GREAT you had the honesty and courage to change your views! God bless you for it!

Will you be prepared to change them again and further?

Because your change to a Thursday Crucifixion is or was most noble; but that is not where the Holy Spirit through the testimony of the Scriptures will end with you, if my own experience meant anything, for also with me, the BIG CHANGE started with the Fifth Day of the week Suffering and Death of Christ; but it was only the first development.

 – Read the full article on BibleStudents.co.za

Seven Posts Between Tree and Stone – Between Darkness and Night and Day

11 May

Read the full article on BibleStudents.co.za

… Afrikaans version also available here – BibleStudents.co.za

Seven Posts Between Tree and Stone

Between Darkness and Night and Day

07 05 15

1)  Jesus Dies

 

John 19:28,30

After this, Jesus knowing

Meta touto eidohs ho Iehsous

 

that all things was now accomplished,

hoti ehdeh panta tetelestai

 

that the Scripture might be fulfilled,

hina teleiohthehi heh Grapheh,

 

saith, I thirst.

legei, Dipsoh!

30

When Jesus therefore had taken the Vinegar,

hote oun elaben to oksos

 

he said, It is finished:

Iehsous eipen: Tetelestai!

 

and he bowed his head, and gave up the spirit.

Kai klinas tehn kephalehn paredohken to pneuma.

 

Mark 15:37

And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the spirit.

Ho de Iehsous apheis phohnehn megalehn eksepneusen.

 

Luke 23:46

And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said,

Kai phohnehsas phohnehi megalehi ho Iehsous eipen:

 

Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit;

Pater, eis cheiras sou paratithemai to pneuma mou!

 

and  having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Touto de eipohn eksepneusen.

 

Matthew 27:46

And about the ninth hour

Peri de tehn enatehn hohran

 

Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying,

aneboehsen ho Iehsous phohnehi megalehi legohn:

 

Eli Eli lema sabachthani?

Ehli Ehli lema sabachthani?

 

that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Tout’ estin: Thee mou Thee mou, hinati me enkatelipes?

50

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the spirit.

Ho de Iehsous palin kraksas phohnehi megalehi aphehken to pneuma.

.

.

.

… Read the full article on BibleStudents.co.za

… Afrikaans version also available here – BibleStudents.co.za

Lost Passover

2 Feb

The Lost Passover – Bone-Day [etsem yom] incidences – Read the full article on BibleStudents.co.za

…in Genesis …

Genesis 7

“11 In THE SAME DAY [HADZEH YOM] all the fountains of the great deep were broken up … 13 in THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] entered Noah … into the ark.” “…in the selfsame whole day bone day… [etsem yom] …as when in the days of Noah an ark was being prepared the longsuffering of God waited wherein souls through watery [grave] were saved … by the Resurrection of Christ… For Christ has once suffered for [our] sins that He might bring us to God, He being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the Spirit.” 1Peter 3:20,21,18.

Genesis 17

“23 Abraham circumcised the flesh of their foreskin in THE

SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] as God

had said unto him …7 I will establish my covenant between

me and thee and thy Seed [Christ]… 26 in THE SELFSAME WHOLE DAY BONE DAY [etsem yom] (stricken in age) Abraham was circumcised… And the LORD appeared unto him… pass not away from thy servant… wash your feet and rest yourself under the tree… Abraham fetched a calf… a young man hasted to dress it… And [the LORD] stood by them and they did eat. And [the LORD] said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and lo, (waxed old) Sarah thy wife shall have a son… at the appointed time I

shall return.”

Genesis 50

“20 God meant to bring to pass as it is THIS DAY to save

much people alive. 21 Now fear ye not : I will nourish you and your little ones. And he comforted them and spake kindly to them. 24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I DIE : and God will surely visit you and bring you out of this land unto the land which He sware unto Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob. 25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up from hence myBONES—26 SO JOSEPH DIED being an hundred and ten years old : and [having been buried in a grave] they embalmed him, and he was PUT IN A COFFIN in Egypt…”

The Book of Genesis ended with Joseph’s burial day and future care of his bones—fulfilled in the Book of Exodus.

… Read the full article on BibleStudents.co.za

All Sunday Resurrectionists

4 Jan

All Sunday-Resurrectionists Refuted – click here for the full discussion

Wednesday and Friday Crossites
Thrashed Shredded and Trashed
Part Eight
Simulacra
Reg, Alex, Rubies etc.

EXTRACT/INTRODUCTION TO THE DISCUSSION…

Source – http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/seventh-day-adventist/TCMT0QQAME27RFJT4/p180

Reg:

The last supper was not a passover meal it was the night before passover Christ has to die before the passover the disciples won’t have the passover the next night on the 15th when Christ gave up his life after sunset He had to fulfil Ex 12 He would not give up His life until then He had that power
I have several times explained the last supper but never comment the old covenant was to pass away the next day when Christ died and at the last he introduced the new covenant it was not a passover supper the bread represented His broken body for us the wine that night would never be unfermented represented his sinlessness and the washing of the feet represented humility which SDA,s still keep that we are all equals an represented his sinlessness and the washing of the feet represented humility which SDA,s still keep that we are all equals and should treat each other the same Read John 13 and 1 Cor 11:23-34 Christ spent that supper telling them that he was not going to be with them and how to remember Him till He comes again

Alex:

Agreed but would be better said as “the Last Supper was not a Passover meal – it was the night before Feast of the Passover/ULB 24 hours before – Christ had to die in the afternoon on 14 Nisan before the Feast of Passover. The disciples, though disheartened with the death of their Messiah probably had the Passover the next night on the 15th – hours after Christ gave up his life before sunset – on the 14 Nisan.

GE:

Alright with a few questions for you, Alex,
Don’t you mean, <the Last Supper was… the night before Feast of the Passover/ULB 24 hours> later, instead of before? Naturally the disciples were <disheartened with the death of their Messiah>.

One must take into account the disciples’ utter confusion and the chaos caused by the natural disasters of the “darkness”[1], “earthquake”[2], “rent veil”[2], “opened graves”[3],  and fallen-in door-lintel of the portal into the sanctuary[4]. So the disciples could impossible have had their <passover meal> <the first night”[5] “on the fifteenth”[6], after “when it had become evening already”[7] three to four hours after Jesus had given his life “the ninth hour”[8] before sunset[9] : <on the 14 Nisan> the day before.

So the disciples rather even before Jesus had died, would have gone into hiding in the very room where two days after “when being evening regarding the First Day of the week, thronged-in-together-still behind closed doors for fear of the Jews”[10], Jesus found his disciples confused and in consternation, <disheartened with the death of their Messiah>.

Therefore instead of Jesus’ disciples should have buried Him, God designed Joseph and Nicodemus would come forward and without the help of his disciples and in their absence, would bury Him in faith and obedience to God’s Laws of the Passover of Yahweh.[11]

….

All Sunday-Resurrectionists Refuted – click here for the full discussion